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Fluid-solid interaction

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Fluid-solid interaction

tayebeh khodabandeh
Hi every body
 
I try to model and simulate the full water tanker in ABAQUS Standard.
I have many questions. Can every one help me?
 
1) How can I model water and interaction between  inside of tanker and water?
 
2) Is it necessary to define contact between these surfaces?
 
3) Is it necessary to use eulerian approach?

4) I used the acoustic element  for water and Lagrangian approach to solve
problem. I defined the material properties for water as follows:
 
-Bulk modulus
-Density
Is it correct or not?

Thanks for your help
T.Kh 


     

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Re: Fluid-solid interaction

samizdat43
Depends what you are trying to achieve in "the simulation". Acoustic elements are the right choice if you are looking at small-strain linear vibrations, modes, small-displacement sloshing. If the tanker is not full you need the Eulerian feature.

--- In [hidden email], tayebeh khodabandeh <tkh_1359@...> wrote:

>
> Hi every body
>  
> I try to model and simulate the full water tanker in ABAQUS Standard.
> I have many questions. Can every one help me?
>  
> 1) How can I model water and interaction between  inside of tanker and water?
>  
> 2) Is it necessary to define contact between these surfaces?
>  
> 3) Is it necessary to use eulerian approach?
>
> 4) I used the acoustic element  for water and Lagrangian approach to solve
> problem. I defined the material properties for water as follows:
>  
> -Bulk modulus
> -Density
> Is it correct or not?
>
> Thanks for your help
> T.Kh 
>
>
>      
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


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Re: Fluid-solid interaction

aruk77500
If you are using abaqus standard, you are probably dealing with modal or mode-based vibration analysis. If the state is so, you can not use eulerian mesh capability, which is truely for explicit time integration analysis. For the interaction between the tancer and acoustic water elements, you need to use surface based "tie" constraint. it will provide required interaction. You dont need to define contact or eulerian approach. Bulk modulus and density are just enough for acoustic medium.

I think what you should think about is how to model the free surface of the water. this is because since the acoustic elements do not have any displacement degrees of freedom, you will not be able to see the shape of the free surface of the water. More importantly, you should also think of how to consider the effect of gravity on vibration modes and response of the tank. How to consider this effect.

good luck

--- In [hidden email], "samizdat43" <samizdat43@...> wrote:

>
> Depends what you are trying to achieve in "the simulation". Acoustic elements are the right choice if you are looking at small-strain linear vibrations, modes, small-displacement sloshing. If the tanker is not full you need the Eulerian feature.
>
> --- In [hidden email], tayebeh khodabandeh <tkh_1359@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi every body
> >  
> > I try to model and simulate the full water tanker in ABAQUS Standard.
> > I have many questions. Can every one help me?
> >  
> > 1) How can I model water and interaction between  inside of tanker and water?
> >  
> > 2) Is it necessary to define contact between these surfaces?
> >  
> > 3) Is it necessary to use eulerian approach?
> >
> > 4) I used the acoustic element  for water and Lagrangian approach to solve
> > problem. I defined the material properties for water as follows:
> >  
> > -Bulk modulus
> > -Density
> > Is it correct or not?
> >
> > Thanks for your help
> > T.Kh 
> >
> >
> >      
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>


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Re: Fluid-solid interaction

samizdat43
If you are using acoustic elements to model the fluid, the free-surface effect can be modeled accurately using a surface impedance (*impedance property & *simpedance) with a value of gravity * depth I believe. Check the manuals or papers by Morand & Ohayon.

--- In [hidden email], "aruk77500" <aruk77500@...> wrote:

>
> If you are using abaqus standard, you are probably dealing with modal or mode-based vibration analysis. If the state is so, you can not use eulerian mesh capability, which is truely for explicit time integration analysis. For the interaction between the tancer and acoustic water elements, you need to use surface based "tie" constraint. it will provide required interaction. You dont need to define contact or eulerian approach. Bulk modulus and density are just enough for acoustic medium.
>
> I think what you should think about is how to model the free surface of the water. this is because since the acoustic elements do not have any displacement degrees of freedom, you will not be able to see the shape of the free surface of the water. More importantly, you should also think of how to consider the effect of gravity on vibration modes and response of the tank. How to consider this effect.
>
> good luck
>
> --- In [hidden email], "samizdat43" <samizdat43@> wrote:
> >
> > Depends what you are trying to achieve in "the simulation". Acoustic elements are the right choice if you are looking at small-strain linear vibrations, modes, small-displacement sloshing. If the tanker is not full you need the Eulerian feature.
> >
> > --- In [hidden email], tayebeh khodabandeh <tkh_1359@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi every body
> > >  
> > > I try to model and simulate the full water tanker in ABAQUS Standard.
> > > I have many questions. Can every one help me?
> > >  
> > > 1) How can I model water and interaction between  inside of tanker and water?
> > >  
> > > 2) Is it necessary to define contact between these surfaces?
> > >  
> > > 3) Is it necessary to use eulerian approach?
> > >
> > > 4) I used the acoustic element  for water and Lagrangian approach to solve
> > > problem. I defined the material properties for water as follows:
> > >  
> > > -Bulk modulus
> > > -Density
> > > Is it correct or not?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your help
> > > T.Kh 
> > >
> > >
> > >      
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>


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Re: Fluid-solid interaction

tayebeh khodabandeh
Hi everybody
I'm very greatful from your guidances.
The considered tanker is a completely full with water and there is no sloshing effect in tanker.
Is it necessary to see the shape of the free surface of the water after analysis?
It is worthwhile mentioning that the modal and stress analysis (specially in discontinuity rigions such as conjunction of heads and shell of tanker)are analysis shall be done.
Best Regards
T.Kh.  

--- In [hidden email], "samizdat43" <samizdat43@...> wrote:

>
> If you are using acoustic elements to model the fluid, the free-surface effect can be modeled accurately using a surface impedance (*impedance property & *simpedance) with a value of gravity * depth I believe. Check the manuals or papers by Morand & Ohayon.
>
> --- In [hidden email], "aruk77500" <aruk77500@> wrote:
> >
> > If you are using abaqus standard, you are probably dealing with modal or mode-based vibration analysis. If the state is so, you can not use eulerian mesh capability, which is truely for explicit time integration analysis. For the interaction between the tancer and acoustic water elements, you need to use surface based "tie" constraint. it will provide required interaction. You dont need to define contact or eulerian approach. Bulk modulus and density are just enough for acoustic medium.
> >
> > I think what you should think about is how to model the free surface of the water. this is because since the acoustic elements do not have any displacement degrees of freedom, you will not be able to see the shape of the free surface of the water. More importantly, you should also think of how to consider the effect of gravity on vibration modes and response of the tank. How to consider this effect.
> >
> > good luck
> >
> > --- In [hidden email], "samizdat43" <samizdat43@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Depends what you are trying to achieve in "the simulation". Acoustic elements are the right choice if you are looking at small-strain linear vibrations, modes, small-displacement sloshing. If the tanker is not full you need the Eulerian feature.
> > >
> > > --- In [hidden email], tayebeh khodabandeh <tkh_1359@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi every body
> > > >  
> > > > I try to model and simulate the full water tanker in ABAQUS Standard.
> > > > I have many questions. Can every one help me?
> > > >  
> > > > 1) How can I model water and interaction between  inside of tanker and water?
> > > >  
> > > > 2) Is it necessary to define contact between these surfaces?
> > > >  
> > > > 3) Is it necessary to use eulerian approach?
> > > >
> > > > 4) I used the acoustic element  for water and Lagrangian approach to solve
> > > > problem. I defined the material properties for water as follows:
> > > >  
> > > > -Bulk modulus
> > > > -Density
> > > > Is it correct or not?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your help
> > > > T.Kh 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >      
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>


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RE: Fluid-solid interaction

sridharan.venkataramanan
In reply to this post by tayebeh khodabandeh
Go for coupled eulerian-lagrangian  (CEL) approach. Model water as
Eulerian and Tanker as Lagrangian. That is the best for your case. Use
general contact which handles both Eulerian and Lagrangian elements. You
can find tech briefs and examples on documentation and on simulia web
site.

 

 

 

V.Sridharan

CAE Competency Head, EDS

Wipro Technologies

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of tayebeh khodabandeh
Sent: 24 January 2011 12:20
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Abaqus] Fluid-solid interaction

 

 

Hi every body
 
I try to model and simulate the full water tanker in ABAQUS Standard.
I have many questions. Can every one help me?
 
1) How can I model water and interaction between  inside of tanker and
water?
 
2) Is it necessary to define contact between these surfaces?
 
3) Is it necessary to use eulerian approach?

4) I used the acoustic element  for water and Lagrangian approach to
solve
problem. I defined the material properties for water as follows:
 
-Bulk modulus
-Density
Is it correct or not?

Thanks for your help
T.Kh

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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RE: Fluid-solid interaction

mohammad behroozi
Dear Tayebeh,

I think the best approach to engage with problems of solid-fluid interaction is HYDROSTATIC FLUID ELEMENT as long as pressure gradient is negligible inside the tank, no matter the temperature is changing.

Regards,
Mohammad
 ------------------------------------------------------Mohammad Behroozi, PhD StudentMechanical Eng. DepartmentUniversity of Birmingham, UKAlter Email: [hidden email]

--- On Wed, 2/9/11, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [Abaqus] Fluid-solid interaction
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 10:07 PM


      Go for coupled eulerian-lagrangian  (CEL) approach. Model water as

Eulerian and Tanker as Lagrangian. That is the best for your case. Use

general contact which handles both Eulerian and Lagrangian elements. You

can find tech briefs and examples on documentation and on simulia web

site.



V.Sridharan



CAE Competency Head, EDS



Wipro Technologies



From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf

Of tayebeh khodabandeh

Sent: 24 January 2011 12:20

To: [hidden email]

Subject: [Abaqus] Fluid-solid interaction



Hi every body



I try to model and simulate the full water tanker in ABAQUS Standard.

I have many questions. Can every one help me?



1) How can I model water and interaction between  inside of tanker and

water?



2) Is it necessary to define contact between these surfaces?



3) Is it necessary to use eulerian approach?



4) I used the acoustic element  for water and Lagrangian approach to

solve

problem. I defined the material properties for water as follows:



-Bulk modulus

-Density

Is it correct or not?



Thanks for your help

T.Kh

The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.



WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.



www.wipro.com
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